Transcript

Aubrey Bergauer: [00:00:00] Hey there. In today's episode, we are continuing with a new series we introduced last episode, which is the success series. In this series, we are talking to folks at different points in their careers in arts management. That's students, people who are entry level, early career to mid-career, to artists who also wear administrative hats all the way to chief executive.

All of these arts professionals I have had the pleasure of working with in my up level coaching program and they have been so generous and wonderful to come on here and share their stories with you. What I like about this group is that they all started from a place of challenges they were facing.

Challenges that you too have likely experienced at one point or another in your own career. So you'll hear about them all in this series and how they were able to break through to the next level they were seeking and just go on to crush it. If you listened to the last episode, you already know this, but to help me [00:01:00] do this, I brought in another alum of the Up Level program who is also a member of the team of Team Changing the Narrative, and that's Jeremy Cuebas.

If you're just listening now, the quick bio is Jeremy is also a conductor, an arts administrator himself. And host of his own podcast, which altogether makes him the perfect person to help tell these stories you're going to hear. If you haven't listened to the last episode yet, I totally encourage you go back and do that.

And then today is different topic altogether. It's about how one arts administrator went from, I couldn't land an internship to getting multiple job offers, which sounds pretty timely, especially in today's job market. I appreciate it. I was just reading the latest headlines about job openings in the US and how they're falling to their lowest point since 2021.

And I'm just now piecing this together. This is right around the time our guest today was landing those multiple job offers, like in 2021, the previous lowest [00:02:00] job openings point, right? So this is super relevant because this person's breakthrough was actually in a very similar, very tight job market climate to what we are seeing right now.

So it was already a good story, but now I think it's even a better one. I've also got a free resource for you on career building that I'll share more about at the end. But for now, it's time to learn about how to go from no offers to multiple offers. I'm Aubrey Bergauer and welcome to my podcast. I'm known in the arts world for being customer centric, data obsessed, and for growing revenue.

The arts are my vehicle to make the change I want to see in this world, like creating places of belonging, pursuing gender and racial equality, developing high performing teams and leaders. And leveraging technology to elevate our work. I've been called the Steve Jobs of classical music and the Sheryl Sandberg of the symphony.

I've held offstage roles, managing millions of dollars in revenue at major [00:03:00] institutions, been chief executive of an orchestra where we doubled the size of the audience and nearly quadrupled the donor base. And now I'm here to help you achieve that same kind of success. In this podcast, we are sorting through data and research inside and outside the arts.

Applying those findings to our work in arts management and bringing in some extra voices along the way. All to build the vibrant future we know is possible for our institutions and for ourselves as offstage administrators and leaders. You're listening to The Offstage Mike.

Hi everyone, Aubrey Bergauer here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to tell you about Annual Fund Toolkit. If you're a nonprofit looking to revolutionize your fundraising strategies, you need to know about Annual Fund Toolkit. They're not just another consulting firm. They're specialists in transforming annual funds through data driven donor engagement.

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Now let's dive into today's episode.

Hey, Jeremy. Hi, 

Jeremy Cuebas: Aubrey. 

Aubrey Bergauer: We are back doing this success series and I want to know, tell me, who did you talk to this week? Who are we meeting? 

Jeremy Cuebas: So this week I talked with Paula Wilson. Paula was struggling at the beginning of her career. She was applying for internships. Uh, this was 2019 when she was just starting her career and she was getting some interviews but nothing was really panning out.

She just could not get a job offer and then COVID hit and then, you know, she took a chance and she started reaching out to professional administrators for advice, including you. 

Aubrey Bergauer: Wow. I actually [00:06:00] remember meeting Paula back then. I, at the time, was doing a lot of open office hours type calls then, and honestly, I don't remember a ton of them specifically.

It was a long time ago now. There were a lot of them, but I do remember Paula, and she really is a great person. Thank you! What I recall is that she just stuck out to me as very curious, very open to learning, and fast forward, she helped me, uh, TA the early iteration of my up level program. It had a different name that first year, and a little bit of a different format, but basically that curriculum is what became the uplevel program today.

So then fast forward again, and when I was working on my book, I asked Paula for her help to review some of the EDI DEI passages and So I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, the student has become the teacher, you know? And what I don't know, though, about her [00:07:00] story is the middle. So, what is, what's the turning point from no job offers to where she is now?

Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah, it was a huge transformation and that's what we talk about in the interview. We talk about, like, the specific things that she realized were holding her back and then how she got out of that slump. 

Aubrey Bergauer: Okay, yeah, I can't wait to hear this one.

Jeremy Cuebas: Hi there and welcome to the Offstage Mic. My name is Jeremy Cuebas and I'm here with Paula Wilson. Paula, thank you for being here today. Could you tell us real quickly who you are and what you do? 

Paula Wilson: My name is Paula Wilson and I work at Equigarc as their member services and communications manager. I came into arts administration as a flutist and I currently reside in Houston, Texas.

Jeremy Cuebas: Fantastic. Could you tell us, um, what it was about arts administration that attracted you? I'm sure you still play the flute at least a little bit, but what, what draw you to Arts Admin? 

Paula Wilson: Yes, I still play for fun. Um, but you know, when I first got [00:08:00] into, um, the art space, of course, I was playing flute and I only knew of three different career paths.

I knew you could be a performer, an educator, or a composer. Um, and I didn't want to teach any kids. I just felt like that was a lot of pressure and I wasn't super creative enough to write my own music. And so I was like, okay, well, I'll be a performer. So I went to Indiana university to get my bachelor's of music and flute performance.

And in my second year there, that's when I first learned about it. Arts administration, that that was a thing. I did not realize that there were, um, actual people working behind the scenes to make audiences come to my youth orchestra performances. I literally thought it was just our friends and family. Um, but when I realized that that was a thing, that's when I, um.

on that journey. At first I was thinking, Oh, you know, if performance doesn't work out, then maybe I'll go ahead and do administration. [00:09:00] Um, but as I got more and more experience, especially in college, um, I fell in love with it.

I also wanted to do arts administration really because as I got higher and higher. In my performing career, there are less people that look like me in the classical music space, and so when I realized, you know, what are some of the reasons Why that's the case, I felt like I could make more of an impact on the administration side of things rather than, you know, taking up a chair in an orchestra, um, which that's also of course an impactful way to, you know, have, make those changes.

But for the skill set that I have, I really felt like I could be strategic and influential more on the administration side of things. So add my minor and the rest is history. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Fantastic. What was your, what was your first experience in Arts Admin? 

Paula Wilson: [00:10:00] Yeah, so I was able to have my first internship at my youth orchestra that I grew up playing in.

That was Youth Orchestras of San Antonio, and it was amazing to be able to see the behind the scenes aspects of, of that ensemble. It really, Showed me that I was really interested in learning more and more about the space. And so then I wanted to get another summer opportunity and I was having trouble.

I was applying to a lot of different, um, internships that were, you know, out of state or places I was less familiar with. I was getting interviews, but I wasn't necessarily getting any offers and I understand why it was the idea of not me, not necessarily. I didn't have enough clarity of my vision for my career.

I just knew I wanted to work in arts admin. But then COVID happened, so it kind of didn't even matter that I didn't get those internships because all internships were canceled. But that gave me a lot of time to figure [00:11:00] out What I wanted for my career, I was able to connect with the career service offices at my schools, and they recommended that I do informational interviews with people that I admire.

And so from there, I really just went on LinkedIn, made myself a profile, didn't have one before, and I learned about lots of different, um, arts administrators in the space doing work that I thought was interesting. And that's how I came across. Aubrey Auer, and that was, um, I learned about all her different success stories that she had at California Symphony and the long haul model and all these things.

And she had a, a space where I was able to sign up for her office hours for like 30 minutes and just to chat with her. So we had a phone call, um, in the midst of Covid, and it was really great and I, I didn't know what would come from it at that time, but I learned so much just about in this whole process about what does it mean for me to have a very.

specific perspective on the impact that I want to [00:12:00] have in the art space, in the classical music field. Um, outside of, you know, I want an internship, I want a job, I want to work, I want to, you know, help people like something a little more specific. And so, um, having all of those different calls and refining my resume and interviewing skills, all these things, that's what, helped me get my first full time job, which was at Houston Symphony.

And that was as their digital marketing coordinator. I actually ended up doing my full time job, my first full time job, as the same time as I did my master's in arts leadership. And yeah, that was my first internship and my first job. 

Jeremy Cuebas: What did you find and how did you find your unique perspective as an administrator?

What was that and where did it come from? 

Paula Wilson: Yeah, that's a great question. So I would say, um, what is most important to me is making the classical music space more equitable, more [00:13:00] accessible, more diverse. more inclusive for particularly for people of color and just creating spaces where they feel like they can either be welcomed into the audience of classical music space or You know as a performer and so that was really My end goal of what I wanted to achieve and I wanted to do that not only through you know The EI efforts and not only through community engagement, which Fast both of those fascinates me, but through the more technical aspects as well like marketing or audience development I wanted to see how I could combine this technical analytical strategic brain that I do have and with my Um, my passion for DEI and community engagement.

And so that was the perspective that I realized by talking to different people. I would listen to people who work in, [00:14:00] you know, operations and I'm like, Oh, that's not necessarily that for me. And that was part of the process of knowing, like, just as much as knowing what I want to do, it's also important.

And even, even more important to know what I don't want to do. Fundraising was also on that list. I knew I wanted to learn what does it take to also be able to generate revenue for an organization because we have to remind ourselves that even if we're working in community engagement or DEI, that does not mean that these people cannot.

Bring in money for an organization that is, that's just a myth. And we talked about that all the time. And so I wanted to see like, how can I fit that intersection together? And now the work I'm doing today really combines all of my different passions where. I am able to use marketing to increase the visibility of the organization I'm working with.

I'm also building a membership and I use a lot of my community engagement strategies to do that. [00:15:00] And then on the DEI side, that's the whole mission. We're, we're trying to create more equity for black and brown musicians in the United States. And we're getting, So much buy in from different, um, members, institutions, musicians, and we're working together to see how can we create solutions?

How can we get these musicians to get from one stage of musical development to the next and remove those barriers? So that's the journey. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Amazing. Could you talk, if you remember, about the moment that you kind of realized that this was the path for you? 

Paula Wilson: I realized that this is the path for me when I was sitting in a master class at Indiana university, someone was playing a bunch of 32nd notes and the teacher was saying that, you know, Oh, this, see, this is out of tune within that run.

And he said, if you're not interested in doing this detailed level of work, then [00:16:00] this performing path is not for you. And I just realized I did not want to spend, you know, those eight hours in the practice room like so many people do like. And that is the type of dedication needed to make it in this space.

And so I realized there is just a different type of way I would like to utilize my time, my skills. My brain. And I still want to support those that do want to use their time skills and their efforts to make the art. And so that really was what flipped the switch. Like, this is not a backup plan. This is the plan.

This is how I'm able to stay in the arts and save my sanity. 

Jeremy Cuebas: So just like fundraising, you identified what you did not want to do, and that's so, that's so important. 

Paula Wilson: Exactly. Yeah. I had my hand in fundraising when I was doing telefunding and I was good at it. You know, I was only there for a [00:17:00] couple months and I raised 25, 000, but there's a difference between being good at something and liking it.

to do it. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Could you tell us about the process of getting your job with the Houston Symphony? Because again, you were having like you were interviewing for all these internships and then you weren't getting them. So you identified something was wrong. And then tell us how the job search, you know, why did you apply to this job?

How did that go? Like what made it possible for you to be making the difference that you are today? 

Paula Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. And I would be remissed if I didn't mention. So at the end of my, um, Career development process. That's really what I call it was a full summer dedicated to that where not only was I doing the informational interviews I actually joined some professional organizations as well and went to their virtual Conferences and I did a lot of networking during that time and then I ended up Getting an internship the following summer for National Symphony and their Diversity in Arts Leadership [00:18:00] program and that was a really amazing experience as well.

I had an amazing cohort of black and brown arts leaders all across the country and so it was an amazing support system and amazing professional development. opportunity. So while I was there at the Nashville Symphony, that was when I realized that I was interested in marketing because I wanted to learn how to generate revenue for an organization.

Uh, let my supervisor know, and that's very important, always make sure you're communicating, um, what your, your needs and what your wants are. My mom always says, Closed mouths don't get fed. So that's really important. So I let my supervisor know, and she connected me with the digital marketing manager at the Nashville symphony.

And so we had a call and I learned so much about it. And I was like, yes, this is what I want to do. And so then the opportunity for Houston symphony came up and. I applied and yeah, I went through the interviews and I actually asked them, I said, what was it [00:19:00] about my interview that made me like stand out and make, maybe I want to hire me.

And they did tell me that it had to do with my experience at the Nashville Symphony. So they were able to see that I had worked for a similar orchestra or similar organization. And they also, of course, loved my passion for diversity, equity, inclusion, because that was something that was really important to the organization.

And. Yeah, that was really that process. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Fantastic. And could you tell us a bit about like the good that you're doing today? Like what impact are you having on the world or in classical music? Maybe our, our little. 

Paula Wilson: Yeah. So I, um, I love what I do at Bayark. I always say my favorite part of my job is connecting with people.

From all over, on a given day, I might be talking with a parent, I might be talking with a musician, a CEO, uh, a dean of a conservatory, and I get to hear what's on their mind, and sometimes it's, it can be heavy, [00:20:00] and sometimes it can be really encouraging. And because it's great to hear, you know, the things that people are doing well in this classical music space, because when we just can find one organization or one type of program, one initiative, that really can grow like wildfire.

We can just say, hey, this organization is providing, we work with Pathways Programs. So Pathways Programs, they provide free private instruction. They provide Um, funding for college auditions, funding for summer study, mentorship, anything that a high schooler could need to get into college, Pathways Programs provide that.

And so we're able to say that and promote these programs and be like, these are what these programs are doing. You should do one, too, in your city if it doesn't have it. That's the type of impact we're able to have, like, with just one, one initiative. It's just one person [00:21:00] stepping up. And that's one thing that I learned a lot from Aubrey.

Like, she didn't care if she was the first to do something. Like, she was gonna pilot it herself. And so that's really, um, the energy that we have at Equity Yard. Where we'll try something, um, maybe it won't work, but maybe it will. You never know until you try. What can it look like if Multiple entities, institutions came together towards the cause of creating equity.

Like, what type of impact could we have? And so, being able to be that, I guess, vessel that facilitates those types of opportunities, that's, that's one of my favorite parts. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Fantastic. As you continue with your career, what do you see as possibly some of the next steps or where were you, you know, where you'd like to be in 20 years?

What does that future look like for you as you see it? 

Paula Wilson: You know, that's a funny question, because if you would have asked me this last year, I would have said, That I wanted to wanted to teach. I wanted to be a professor in like 10 or so [00:22:00] years. Um, but actually I'm doing that because I am most passionate about helping young professionals primarily black and brown professionals advance in their career.

Um, one thing I see oftentimes is there's a There's sometimes a more timid approach or not as much confidence or imposter syndrome, whatever you want to call it, that young professionals can have. But that's one thing that Aubrey talks about a lot is that we have A perspective to bring to the table as well.

And she helped me learn that really early on because when she was doing her young professional course, she had put a post out on LinkedIn saying, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this course for young professionals. Like, what do you think? And all I did was just comment. I was like, Oh, this is amazing. This would be super cool.

If you need any help, let me know. And then she DM me and she's like, I'm gonna take you up on [00:23:00] this. Do you want to be a TA? And I was like, Oh my goodness. Yes. And so that was an amazing opportunity. Um, to take that course and learn and also be able to get that knowledge of what does it mean to administer a course and I have always wanted to be a professor and that was always something that was of interest to me and so it was really cool to be able to have that type of experience.

Fast forward to this year, I had the opportunity to teach an introduction to arts administration course. I did not know where that was going to go. I totally could have not applied for that due to imposter syndrome. But I did. I did. I was like, why not? You know, worst thing they can tell me is no. And so I put my name in the hat for that and I got it.

And I have now been teaching this. I'm in my third semester of teaching that type of course. And it's so amazing because I love meeting with young professionals. Many people come to me [00:24:00] that are, um, in the art space. And, or are performing or practitioners, you know, and they're wanting to make that transition into arts administration or learn more about it.

And so I'm able to talk with them about that and just how their skills actually are so transferable to what they want to do with their, with their lives and with their careers. Um, I'm big on the sustainability of whatever people want to do, making sure that you can make your money, generate your revenue.

That was why that was really important for me to learn how to do that on behalf of institutions. But it's just as important to be able to do that. You know, individually, I just want to continue to help folks figure out what they want to do with their careers and just have that clarity, have that perspective that so many people were able to help me develop.

So I just want to pay it forward and pass that along. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah, yeah, you're, you're helping build this next generation of what I've noticed from this talk is that a lot of these opportunities came from you [00:25:00] asking for what you wanted, but then also from mentors that were there to support you and teach you.

And so you were doing that for the next generation of arts administrators. And I think that's just. I think that's just beautiful. 

Paula Wilson: Absolutely. Mentorship is so, so important. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Paula, I've got one more question. I really appreciate your time today and I'm sure the listeners do as well. Um, what advice would you give to somebody at the beginning of their career?

Paula Wilson: Well, I guess I'll just double down. Closed mouths don't get fed. You need to, if you, if there's something you see and you want it, you need to go for it. Truly the worst thing that someone can say to you is no. And that's not that bad. Like, so that's really what I would highly encourage. And if you don't know what you want, then start there.

Just figure out, you know, what are you passionate about? What is the impact that you'd like to have on the world, on the arts, on the classical music space, however [00:26:00] small you want or how much, however. You want to make that, but start with that, figure out what your perspective is. And once, once, you know, keep your eyes open and, and talk to people.

Jeremy Cuebas: Great. I really like the closed mouths. Don't get fed. Um, there's a, uh, there's an influencer that I like who says that when you go public with what you want, like when you say out loud, what you want, like we're all afraid of the people who are going to come and say, Oh, that's stupid. That's stupid. But we forget about the people who say, Oh, that's great.

I want that too. Let's work together. 

Paula Wilson: Exactly. You just never know. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. You mentioned earlier that, uh, like talking to the CEO is intimidating because you're like, Oh, I'm not, I'm not good enough to talk to them, but they're people too. 

Paula Wilson: They're people. They're just figuring it out. Like, just like everyone else.

Um, there's so many questions, especially in this arts and classical music space. And no one has the full answer. Um, We all have ideas and ideas that we can try out and see if it works. [00:27:00] And so why not? We can use data to try to back up those ideas, but so many times fear is what stopped us as early professionals, but even folks that are well established in their career from doing things because, you know, that's the enemy of, you know, getting Progress and innovation saying, you know, we've always done it this way.

And so we're scared to make a change, but that's, that's the whole point, right? Of changing the narrative and all of these things. Like we need to be able to make those shifts and not be scared. Cause truly the worst thing they can say is no. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Well, Paula, thank you so much for joining us today on the offstage.

Mike, we. Really appreciate your time. And if people want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach out? 

Paula Wilson: Yeah, the best way to find me is on LinkedIn. Um, just search Paula Wilson and I'll be there. 

Jeremy Cuebas: Thank you. Thank you for your inspiration and for sharing your story today. 

Paula Wilson: Awesome. Thank 

Aubrey Bergauer: you so much for having me.

Hey, Offstagers. Navigating a career in arts management can be hard [00:28:00] sometimes. I know this because I hear it from people I work with all the time. I hear it in the DMs people send me and in my inbox. I hear it when I meet people on the road, speaking at events and conferences. And I know it because I've experienced it myself too over the years.

But as you heard today, there are skills you can learn to overcome the obstacles. That's why this fall, I will be leading a free three part virtual training on how to grow your career in arts management. Registration will open soon. So head to aubreybergauer. com slash 34. That's three four for episode 34 and get on the waitlist to be the first to be notified of all the details.

That's www. aubreybergauer. com slash 34.

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That's all for today, folks. Thanks so much for listening. If you like what you heard here, hit that button to follow and subscribe to this podcast. And if you've learned something or gotten value from this, please take two seconds to leave a quick one tap rating or review and return to all of you. One more time.

Thanks again. See you next time on the Offstage Mic. The Offstage Mic is produced by me, Aubrey Bergauer, and Erin Allen. The show is edited by Novo Music, an audio production company of all women, audio engineers, and musicians. Our theme music is by Alex Grohl. Additional podcast support this season comes from Jeremy Cuebas, Kelle Stedman, Other members of the Changing the Narrative team, and social media brand management like Classical Content.

This is a [00:32:00] production of Changing the Narrative.

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