Transcript

[00:00:00] Aubrey Bergauer: Hey there, today I'm excited to bring you a conversation that's the next story in our success series. If you're just tuning into this series for the first time, we are talking to arts administrators, arts managers at different points in their careers. That's students, entry level, early career, mid career, an aspiring executive director who successfully made the leap, and today, an artist who sort of fell into administration a little bit.

All of these arts professionals you're hearing from in this series, I've had the pleasure and honor and joy of working with in my up level coaching program. And they have been so generous to come on here and share their stories with you. They all started from a place of experiencing challenges they were facing of some kind, which you'll hear about, challenges that you very likely have experienced at one point or another in your own career too, and they were able to break through [00:01:00] that and just go on to crush it.

So I have to say, as we get going, this idea of an artist who sort of fell into administration, as I said, is so common. I'm sure you know this. Artists who have an ensemble or started or founded an arts organization of some sort, people who created a new vehicle to deliver their art, you know, whatever artistic discipline that may be, and then have to learn on the fly.

How do we fund this thing? Or how do we handle the legal stuff? Or how do we sell tickets or, you know, just whatever. So if you are an artist with an interest in administration, whether you are also a founder or even if you're not a founder, but just interested or looking to expand your own career options, then this episode is definitely for you.

And if you're not a working artist, that's okay, too. Because if I had to boil it down, I'd say a big theme or big takeaway [00:02:00] from today is. Learning to give yourself the permission to be different and not be on a specific path. Like, wow, that is just gold any day in my book. So no matter why you're here, I'm glad you're here.

Let's get to it. I'm Aubrey Bergauer, and welcome to my podcast. I'm known in the arts world for being customer centric, data obsessed, and for growing revenue. The arts are my vehicle to make the change I want to see in this world, like creating places of belonging, pursuing gender and racial equality, developing high performing teams and leaders, and leveraging technology to elevate our work.

I've been called the Steve Jobs of classical music and the Sheryl Sandberg of the symphony. I've held offstage roles managing millions of dollars in revenue at major institutions, been chief executive of an orchestra where we doubled the size of the audience and nearly quadrupled the donor base. And now I'm here to help you achieve that same kind of success.

[00:03:00] In this podcast, we are sorting through data and research inside and outside the arts. Applying those findings to our work in arts management and bringing in some extra voices along the way, all to build the vibrant future we know is possible for our institutions and for ourselves as offstage administrators and leaders.

You're listening to the Offstage Mic.

Hi everyone. Aubrey Bergauer here. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to tell you about Annual Fun Toolkit. If you're a non profit looking to revolutionize your fundraising strategies, You need to know about Annual Fund Toolkit. They're not just another consulting firm. They're specialists in transforming annual funds through data driven donor engagement.

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Now, let's dive into today's episode.

Hey Jeremy, how's it going? What's on deck for today? 

[00:05:22] Jeremy Cuebas: So today I talked with Carlos Cordero. Carlos is a composer, a conductor, he calls himself an artist and a founder of a choral group, but his ensemble, or should I say he in particular, was really, really struggling a couple years ago to get noticed and to stand out and to differentiate himself in the market.

[00:05:40] Aubrey Bergauer: Yeah, okay. I feel like I see this and hear this from folks quite a lot. You know, the question of how do I stand out in the marketplace? 

[00:05:50] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. And he was struggling with both himself as a composer and his ensemble. How do we set himself up differently? And, uh, it's kind of funny. He actually learned that he wasn't standing out [00:06:00] because people literally Told him.

[00:06:03] Aubrey Bergauer: Oh God. Ouch. Wow. wo uh, so where is he now? 

[00:06:09] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah, so we're gonna talk about it in this interview. His ensemble is now looking to expand to different cities in Texas. They've got grant awards. They've recruited some really, really dedicated volunteers and supporters. And you'll hear in the interview why.

Extra dedicated, but I don't want to give it all away, but when he realized that you can't be everything to everyone, that's really what started unlocking things for him. And he started seeing a lot of success. 

[00:06:32] Aubrey Bergauer: Okay. Yeah. I love this so much. You can't be everything to every one and that's how you stand out.

Right. So, okay. Let's hear the story.

[00:06:48] Carlos Cordero: My name is Carlos. I am originally from Venezuela, where I live currently in Austin, Texas. And I do many things in music. And I'm glad that it's that way because if I stay in one thing, I get a little bit bored. [00:07:00] I am a composer mainly, but I'm also a conductor. And something that I newly created a few years ago now was the title of New Choral Music Advocates.

I work mainly with choral music. And I love to advocate for everybody who takes part into creating new choral music. Whether it's an administrative, whether it's an artist like a poet or a conductor or a composer, there's always some way to highlight what we are currently doing for choral arts.

[00:07:30] Jeremy Cuebas: Fantastic. Could you tell us a little bit about how you learned about Avri and her work, and why, as an artist, you were drawn to it? Yes. 

[00:07:39] Carlos Cordero: Yes. So one thing that immediately brought me to, and I have to say it was through social media, of course, but the long haul model, uh, for audience development, uh, as a composer back then and participating in many choirs, I wanted to know.

You know how to engage better with our community and how to understand them [00:08:00] more and to see also not only as a Art administrator, uh working with a choir trying to figure out how to bring people to our concert But also as a composer i've always said that my voice is not only my singing voice We're also my voice as a composer everything that I do how I move how what?

I decide to set to music and then my audience is not only the audience that comes to the concert, but also everybody who comes into contact with my voice, right? So in that way you see more connection and more opportunities to relate to people. In this case, I wanted to understand her model to develop that relationship with people in a genuine way and in a way that feels very current.

So That immediately caught me and I have to say that I watched every video I read everything that I could and It was exciting to get to know how she's just [00:09:00] changing the way that we are connecting with others. 

[00:09:03] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. I think it's a little unfortunate that in the classical music world, just connecting with people really is so rare.

[00:09:11] Carlos Cordero: I know, you know, and it's interesting just last week, uh, we had a concert, right? And we come out, there are applauses, right? And then. And we do the first piece, first piece ends, silence. It was like, what's happening? Second piece, silence, right? So it was time for me to talk. And I said, well, you know, my introduction, I always, you know, like to say like, hola people, you know, all the things out of the organization.

I said, people, you cannot play in this concert. This is a concert where you, where you can be. And everybody was like, I said, this is the We don't have to be like, Oh my God, how do I behave here? It's just be yourself, you know, and we are so used to be told in the past, I think this is changing, but to be told, like, come here, sit, be silent, right?

And those things are changing. So I'm glad that, you know, we [00:10:00] are kind of little by little, just helping people to understand that they can be in the concert. 

[00:10:05] Jeremy Cuebas: Tell us a little bit about what you do with your concerts, what you're doing with choral music, how you're advocating, uh, for different populations, different issues.

Tell us a bit about what you're doing right now. 

[00:10:16] Carlos Cordero: So in the beginning when I was writing music, I used to say kind of very simple telling stories through music. It felt very generic to me with time, so I decided to, um, research a little bit more of what I was doing, why I was picking the text That I was selecting so I came to this that I really love.

I really love that I wake up every day and I think of you know, uh, um making repertoire that helps people to have conversation on how to be kinder to each other and to ourselves. So this helps me to not only write pieces that are very important to me in terms of social issues, current or in the past, but mostly current, but also pieces that [00:11:00] are a little bit more light hearted.

And that talk about connection in the community or talk about how our inner child needs to be more present to help us lower our stress and enjoy more every day. And I say that, of course, and I keep reminding myself of that, right? But the idea that this repertoire and this music help us to see, to question ourself of, oh, can I be kinder here?

And I'm not saying, you know, we are always kind because There are moments that our stress or situations take the best out of us, but to question that and to start to move forward, I think it's a nice way of starting, to give the first step. And through both the music I write but also the music that I perform, And in this case with UnHerd as well.

Uh, UnHerd is my professional choir here in Texas. We have almost one year and it's very exciting to be leading this ensemble because we advocate for the LGBTQ plus community and under that [00:12:00] same flag of how to be kinder to each other and to ourselves, we gather people through choral music to elevate the voices.

It's really exciting to think because when I go to music, I thought, you know, yes, I love music. I love performing. I love writing. But why, why am I doing this? What's, what's the goal? And I really liked that I connected to then this why, and it helped me to then explain to people, you know, like, Oh, why did you write this, this piece?

This is exactly the reason why.

Another subject that I really like to advocate to is for, I'm from Latin America, so for the Latin American community and immigrant community. Uh, and it's been interesting because coming from Venezuela, there are a lot of humanitarian crisis in Venezuela right now. And in the beginning was a lot about the troubles of, for example, immigrating.

And it is a very [00:13:00] difficult, it's a very challenging thing to do, right? But also through this process and through working with other organizations, I've also explored. What other things come with immigrating, right? So also advocating for the positive side that you start to make roots in other places. You start to get to know people and their culture and they start to get to know yours.

So kind of advocating for those both sides, you know, seeing the challenges, but also acknowledging that there's a lot to celebrate as well. So it's been a very rewarding refocusing of my career. 

[00:13:37] Jeremy Cuebas: One thing that that's come up. This season already, um, is how important having a specific why is or a specific mission or making a specific change in people with our music.

Um, could you talk about maybe the moments that you realized what that was for you or when you realized that you needed to do something more specific? [00:14:00] 

[00:14:00] Carlos Cordero: One of them was, uh, you know, like, need based, because I started going more to conferences and one of them was, oh, I need to make my cards right. So, and that's where I was like telling stories through music, right.

And I had this telling stories through music in my card. And then when I saw my car after the conference was like, I need something else. You know, like I, I need not only visually but also. Like I felt in that moment, like everybody tells stories through music. This is what we do, right? So this is the the very base.

Um, but one of the really great things Of then later working with Ori too is that we got to question that as well, you know Both through my time in University of Houston and then afterwards, you know, you're out of school You are kind of in the real life and you're trying to figure out how can I keep learning?

How can I keep asking this? There was that moment of You I need to, to pause one second and think of how I want to direct this energy because if not, it's just going to be output that doesn't have a stream. [00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. Yeah. If you put, if you put, I make music on your business card and you go to a music conference, everyone's going to have that business card.

Exactly. 

[00:15:10] Carlos Cordero: And I still have those cards. And it's funny to see the evolution from not only the message, but also the confidence, which is very nice. I've always said, like, I don't like to brag. In fact, it's one of the most difficult things for me. Like, I don't want to feel cocky ever, you know, I don't want to feel like telling myself and such.

And also we need to do that, right? But the point is to understand that there were confidence there to be exercised. 

[00:15:34] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I really like your, what's your tagline now again? Music that makes 

[00:15:40] Carlos Cordero: Yeah, so writing music that allows us to have conversations, how to be kinder to each other and to ourselves.

[00:15:46] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah, I love that because it drives you and it makes it very easy to understand what you're doing and what what the point can be. So I love that you show up every morning. Clearly, you didn't always feel like that. None of us always feel like getting up, but when you [00:16:00] have that clear goal, mission, however, you'd like to call it.

That just makes everything easier, more, more focused, 

[00:16:07] Carlos Cordero: you know? And one of the things I love about it is that it takes away a little bit from the music. And a lot of people tell me like, Oh my God, you're crazy because you know, like you're talking about music, not being the most important, right? But to me, yes, making music, writing music and all that.

It's awesome. Right. And also there's something more right there in this case is the conversations that we have. You know, after the concert, during the concert or before, but it's writing something, going to a concert or doing something in order to connect with others, in order to share your story and to hear what they have to say.

So I want ultimately for my events and my output to help people. Do that other step of talking, of connecting, of saying, Hey, you know, I have an idea of how to improve this inequality that we have in this community. Let's go and work together. That kind of fire. 

[00:16:57] Jeremy Cuebas: If there are listeners in the [00:17:00] audience who are struggling with confidence in any way, What advice would you give them?

[00:17:05] Carlos Cordero: I think that one of the biggest thing that I learned in my path and this was also working through therapy and such was understanding That my channel didn't define me and what was awesome. I was trying to think like, oh, you know, I don't know exactly What do I do as a composer? How do I do it? Or how do I want that to go?

And my therapist was like You can create what you want to do. And then that's why I decided to do the new CHO Music Advocate, because that kind of freed me up to then understand what I could do as a performer. And with that, I then unlocked myself to kind of help me find these trainings. Right? Before I was like, is this really what a composer needs to do?

No, I shouldn't have to do this training. Right. But through that other lens. I was able to then confidently say, yes, I need this training because this will help me to grow, uh, not only my brand, but also [00:18:00] my practice. And this will then help me to create that effect of research and kindness in our community.

Right? So I will say for people who are struggling with confidence is to find that permission within we have to be able to expand of what we want to do. Most things that we do today are not purely just one, but. They are a combination of many things, right? So combine, combine and explore. And then you will find how all these pieces come together in a beautiful puzzle.

And of course, I am very grateful in that journey of trying to find that I was able then to connect with Aubrey and her community, because they not only supported this, but also kind of created the space to be able to say, Here, explore, you know, here, talk about what you want to do and just [00:19:00] expose of what you've been thinking and let's shape it.

So it was amazing. It was, it wasn't a one way street where it's like, here's information, go and do. It was like, Here's information. Tell me what you want to do. Let's shape this and let's just help you understand what you want to do and how you can do it best. So I'm super, super grateful. 

[00:19:21] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Book is great, but it can only talk to you one way. But when you work in a live group, you can have the back and forth, you can do the homework and come back with questions. 

[00:19:33] Carlos Cordero: Yeah, you know, and it's always nice to have the permission there to then feel comfortable to be I think in our field always want to portray that we have all the answers and that we know everything that we're doing and Everything has a reason right?

But in reality and i've been very very comfortable lately to just accept that sometimes we don't have the answers You know, sometimes we're gonna peace or understand from racing But that then helps me to find the people that [00:20:00] will help me to say I don't know what you think, can you help me? And that's the first step.

[00:20:05] Jeremy Cuebas: Your ensemble, UnHerd, you started about a year ago, right? What are some of the steps that you took to found that? What did that look like? 

[00:20:14] Carlos Cordero: You know, it's interesting, the idea of starting something like this has been for years and years. But again, there was confidence then there too. Have to be nurtured, nurtured, nurtured.

And the first thing that you could think is getting the people, picking the repertoire, making the plans. But to be honest, the first steps were getting these courses. I did both Alvarez training, but also I did the course America leadership training. These two leadership subjects, what was interesting is that they could talk just about the mechanical parts of what.

Making an organization is, you know, you select bylaws, you do this, you do that, right? But these talk about [00:21:00] why as well. Why you do this? How do you manage yourself in the midst of this and that? And how do you, and all of that was just kind of the training that I needed. In terms of starting to ask myself, you know, why do you want to do this?

How do you want to do it? The last thing that I thought, to be honest with you, is that I will end up with a professional choir of tenor bass choir here in Austin, because first of all, I love mixed choirs. Doesn't mean that I love less tenor bass, but it was the one that I knew the least about, right? And then to be able to kind of jump into it and say, okay, we are going to learn.

Right. What's part of that journey, besides all of the other learning that I'm doing as, you know, executive director and such, it was also part of that journey. But I remember part of the training with Aubrey was also seeing that then trailblazing of, okay, here are rules. This is the way that we used to do it.

And this is the way that we can make not only this easier or more effective [00:22:00] and more genuine, something that I loved, love so much. It was the humanity that we. Uh, not only from her, but also from the guests and in between us talking just about it's easy to hide behind the jargon of contracts and such rules of ways that we use to do things, but also.

Why not just be genuine and, you know, say things how we say it and communicate what we need and get the results that we want. So I would say that that was kind of the first seats to do this. Later on, of course, when I was like, okay, I'm ready. Okay, I'm ready. Okay, I'm ready. Was of course the idea of searching for support.

both financial and artistic support. And, uh, here in Austin, it was just beautiful to find people who wanted to advocate with me for our LGBTQ plus community. 

[00:22:52] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. Again, when you have a really specific goal in mind, it's so much easier to get people on board with you and get them on the bus and get [00:23:00] them like on the team.

[00:23:02] Carlos Cordero: You know, it is so much easier to hear the no's and hear the yes, because you know, that the ones that are there are definitely in tune with you. It's not. Oh, we tell stories through music. Okay. What, what stories do you tell? This is what we're advocating for. And this is what the music will be about. The ones that say, no, you understand what they are not there.

[00:23:19] Jeremy Cuebas: Yeah. Yeah. I had the same thing. I asked Aubrey recently at office hours, um, we need more board members. How do I get more board members? And her advice was like, decide what board members, what you want board members to do, and then it's easy to say, no, I don't, I don't want to do that. 

[00:23:37] Carlos Cordero: Which is interesting.

You know, you want people to help. But then what do you want people to help with? Cause sometimes you get people and they are like, Oh no, but I don't know any of that. Right. And then you are kind of, okay, well these are the things that I need. So it's one of the struggles, I think of what we do when we see something that it's positive.

It's hard to say that's not what I need [00:24:00] because you're like, this is help. People want to help. Why would I turn down help? But the reality is that In the priorities of what we are doing, that might not be what we need right now. So it is okay to say we need to pass. Yeah, 

[00:24:14] Jeremy Cuebas: that's very hard, especially when you're just starting out.

So you've been around with UnHerd for a year. You've done some really great concerts already with really specific, um, awareness goals. Uh, what is, what are the next couple of years look like for you and the ensemble? 

[00:24:29] Carlos Cordero: So right now we just opened last week, this past Sunday. Our season, our second season, and I have to say that one of our goals right now, because in the first year it was to kind of establish what we did and who we are in the city, right?

So that's our first step. This year we are for during that and kind of establishing now what we just did in the first year. And I want to be able to expand to the neighboring cities that we have here in Texas. Uh, of course, Texas is huge. So. [00:25:00] That will take some time, but one of my goals is for us to reach places like San Antonio and Houston, right?

Besides other cities here, but also to be able to make connections. Uh, we started last season to make connections with other organizations that are not necessarily musical, but that advocate for the LGBTQ plus community, like here, the kind clinic. We have also the human right campaign that it's national and.

These organizations, I want to be able to then collaborate with them to both share the message. It doesn't have to be necessarily through music, but with music, right? Involved, but to be able to let people know that what we do, which is interesting because in the beginning, when we started, I was like, does anybody represents as the LGBTQ plus community in our choir, right?

I mean, it's not, it's mostly right, but we also have the allies. To which is super important for us to recognize that, um, it's the [00:26:00] LGBTQIA, right? We also have the allies who play an enormous part of making our community kinder for ourself as well Right. So to establish kind of that idea of Who are the people in my community that are going to have my back and are going to support and celebrate me?

Because in the end of the day, we are trying to still find acceptance, which is difficult to say because you know, like why will we need acceptance in some ways, but trying to find peace of mind and understand that we are not at risk. Uh, sadly, you know, a lot of in the present time we are in many ways, right?

So trying to find those people, those pillars, those organizations who are standing up for our community, then it's one of our goals right now. I'm starting to dream. So I have another one of my mentors. Uh, one of the questions was, you know, like how much can I then plan? How much can I, and it's like, this is a moment where you have to dream, you know, uh, what the [00:27:00] future of this organization So then you can find your to do list, right?

Who are the people that you have to talk to? What are the action items besides setting up the concerts? Because for me, I enjoy planning a concert. I enjoy fundraising for it and all, but I don't like the living by concerts mentality. I like to think of how are we building the future. Right. And how is that feeding the next concert that we have?

[00:27:25] Jeremy Cuebas: That's fantastic. And again, with such a clear mission, um, it's going to be so much easier to recruit people and get that support and move forward. One of the other things it does is it allows you, yeah, like you said earlier, it allows you to say no to opportunities or no to ideas when When you, when yes is so clear.

Carlos, thank you so much for joining us. Um, if somebody wants to connect with you, how can they connect with you? And then how can they connect with, um, learn more about or support the unheard? Uh, ensemble, 

[00:27:56] Carlos Cordero: of course. Thank you so much. So the happy choir. com is my [00:28:00] brand there. You can find me and find my email The happy choir.

com and then on her choir dot org or you can find us in social media 

[00:28:08] Jeremy Cuebas: Thank you so much again for being with us today 

[00:28:10] Carlos Cordero: Thank you, Jeremy. 

[00:28:12] Aubrey Bergauer: There is a lot you were never taught about navigating a career in arts management. Nobody taught you how to land an administrative role, ask for a promotion, how to have confidence in job interviews, how to properly sell and brand yourself, how to get buy in for your ideas, how to manage up to a boss or a board, or how to motivate the best performance in others on your team.

That all changes soon. Join me, Aubrey Bergauer, for a new, free, live, virtual event where you will learn the things that are holding you back and equip yourself to take your career in arts management to the next level no matter where you're at right now. From student to long timer in the field, To being an artist with an interest in administration.

It's [00:29:00] called, They Never Taught You That. A three part virtual training on how to grow your career in arts management. And it all starts very soon, completely free, but you do need to save your seat. Register now at www. aubreybergauer. com slash how to grow your career. You can't win a game if you don't know the rules, right?

So go to aubreybergauer. com slash how to grow your career and we'll change that together. Can't wait to see you there.

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That's all for today, folks. Thanks so much for listening. If you like what you heard here, Hit that button to follow and subscribe [00:32:00] to this podcast. And if you've learned something or gotten value from this, please take two seconds to leave a quick one tap rating or review and return. To all of you, one more time, thanks again.

See you next time on The Offstage Mic. The Offstage Mic is produced by me, Aubrey Bergauer, and Erin Allen. The show is edited by Novo Music, an audio production company of all women, audio engineers, and musicians. Our theme music is by Alex Broll. Additional podcast support this season comes from Jeremy Cuebas, Kelle Stedman, other members of the Changing the Narrative team, and social media brand management by Classical Content.

This is a production of Changing the Narrative.

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