TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Aubrey Bergauer: Hey everyone. Welcome to episode seven of eight of this pilot season of the Offstage Mic podcast. I am on cloud nine right now, because I just finished up the Summer Uplevel course I've been teaching the last several weeks, six weeks or so. And I just have to give a shout out to everybody who participated. This group was so thoughtful, driven, smart, at all different places in their careers, all different parts of the country, all different kinds of genres, sizes of organizations, a few international folks as well. This group was awesome. So like I said, cloud nine. And now that that is in the books, I am getting ready to head out on summer vacations. That's another reason why I am flying high today. By the time this drops, I will be getting ready to leave for a week away at Grand Teton National Park and Yellowstone National Park.

I think every other travel I've had this year, I think this is true. Every other travel I've had this year has been work-related in some way. And often I really love that mix, this balance of work and play together. But this time I feel 100% ready to disconnect for a week, and I'm really looking forward to that. And nature, I just think is so restorative in that way, and the national parks are national parks for a reason. They're glorious and they never disappoint. So I'm excited to visit these two that I haven't seen before.

And then after I'm back, I will be releasing the final episode of this season. So today, plus one more. And then we're done with this pilot season. If you've been listening, I just want to say I'm really grateful. I created this podcast to answer more publicly questions that I get asked all the time with the goal of serving more people than that kind of one-on-one setting. So I hope this has been valuable to you.

And we'd love your feedback on that. If you found this podcast helpful, valuable in some way, would you please take like 30 seconds to leave a rating or review. And especially if you want this to continue in some format for a second season, those ratings, the reason why they matter is because they really help with pitching to sponsors as well as for Apple, Spotify, other platforms and their searchability and discovery. So if you just take two seconds to hit that star rating, it goes beyond that one-on-one interaction I've heard from folks on social media or an email- in the same way this content is meant to go beyond a one-on-one interaction also.

So let's get to it today. Today, we are talking about data. I recently had a conversation with the San Francisco Classical Voice on data and how it applies to arts organizations. Jim Farber was the writer for that article. And he reached out to me, set up this call. And he asked so many thoughtful questions about data, how to think about it in the context of arts organizations of different sizes, what database to use, all kinds of questions I get asked somewhat regularly. So I'm going to share that conversation and it's entirety, because of course covered way more than he was able to include in the article. And I will also link to Jim's article in the show notes.

I just want to thank the San Francisco Classical Voice for not only covering this topic, but also to Jim and his editorial team for agreeing to share it with you here. So let's hit it.

I'm Aubrey Bergauer, and welcome to my podcast. If we haven't met, I'm known in the arts world for being customer centric, data obsessed, and for growing revenue. The arts are my vehicle to make the change I want to see in this world, like creating places of belonging, pursuing gender and racial equality, developing high performing teams and leaders, and leveraging technology to elevate our work.

In this show, I'm answering your questions on how to build the vibrant future we know is possible, both for our institutions and for ourselves as offstage administrators and leaders. To submit a question, send a voice recording to hello@aubreybergauer.com.

[00:04:06] Jim Farber: Because I thought it would be interesting to talk about applying analytics to arts organizations. Obviously they can take in more data, make more decisions or offer more results. Isn't that sort of the curve that you've seen since you got involved in this field?

[00:04:23] Aubrey Bergauer: Definitely. There's an increase in pursuit of data. I would say, I think what is lacking sometimes is twofold. One is a consistent approach to using data. And we can talk more about what that looks like. Mm-hmm, two is starting with a question. I find that that's key to using analytics and data properly. And what we don't often see , is nuance that comes with that. I wanna test a project and define, what is gonna make this successful and then go seek the data, our analytics, that answers that question.

Instead, what I see so often is 'what's our dashboard? What are our key performance indicators?' And not that that's not necessary, but it's almost an oversimplification.

[00:05:11] Jim Farber: I'm not sure exactly. And maybe cuz I'm naive, but what do you mean by dashboard?

[00:05:16] Aubrey Bergauer: Mm, what are the top metrics you're gonna present at every board meeting so that we can see what's going on? And okay. Not that that's a bad thing, but there's not five key metrics. I mean, beyond, you know, revenue, that's the number one thing we should all care about at the end of the day, but it's, once we peel that back, it's just specific each project is what I'm trying to get at.

And that is, that is the specific nuance that I don't see a lot of.

[00:05:41] Jim Farber: Okay. But on a sort of baseline question, are there specific companies or, or data programs? When you came to California symphony and you wanna start using these, these processes, there's gotta be a program or a company that you go to for this aren't there?

[00:06:01] Aubrey Bergauer: First and foremost is our CRM, our databases. So every organization has that available to them. No matter how big or how. Our CRM. We are, we are often under utilizing all the way up to the largest organizations on Tessitura, which is the most sophisticated of the arts databases. I'm painting with a very broad brush, but it's largely true that we are under utilizing the data available to us and our CRM.

Like it's, it's there. It's just how to harness it. That is often right. Untapped to its full potential. Other tools, Google analytics. A hundred percent, so much available to us for free from Google analytics, that's specifically measuring our website. Mm-hmm and also , again, it's there, Jim, it's just largely untapped and it can be in both of those cases, it can be almost overwhelming.

How do we slice and dice what we need? It's a skill to be able to extract what we need. I talked about answering a question, knowing then how to do that is, is a skill for sure. Those are the top two tools in my mind. And like I said, they're available to every arts organization. Once you get beyond that, there's plenty of other tools, anybody who's running digital ads online, whether that's Facebook, Instagram, Google, all of those ad platforms come with built in analytics tools.

What's our cost per click, you know, all that sort of thing. Also available without additional cost. And then from there, I would say. it gets more specific to, again, what is the project at hand? Are we mm-hmm do we want more sophisticated analysis of our social media posts? Not our paid ads, but our organic posts, you know, there are plenty of tools out there that can help with that.

Do we want more sophisticated analysis of our patron behavior online? So now we're not talking just. What website pages are getting the most visits, but do we want a heat map that shows where they're moving their mouse? You know, if we wanna be really sophisticated, there are tools that can help us with that. Mm-hmm

[00:07:52] Jim Farber: So how did you develop your skills to adapt mining data? And then focusing is specifically on issues that apply to arts organizations, to opera companies, to symphony orchestra. Because it had to have been a learning curve and, and cause data is, is there, but you gotta know how to use it. And you have to, like, you've always been saying, ask the right question.

[00:08:15] Aubrey Bergauer: That's right. For me, it was in some ways out of necessity. I learned very, or very early on. I mean, I remember being age, I was 23 years old when I started in marketing at the Seattle Opera. Before that I had been at the Seattle Symphony and. Actually even starting there, I would say so maybe going all the way back to my first job outta college, I realized that my opinion, as the young kid in the office, wasn't gonna get me very far so I started learning.

Okay. , why am I forming these opinions? Oh. And I had to really unpack that for myself. Oh. Because I'm seeing it in this report that I pulled. Oh. Because I'm seeing it, especially at the opera, it was the early days of digital marketing. ,

[00:08:56] Jim Farber: when was this approximately?

[00:08:57] Aubrey Bergauer: Let's see here. I graduated in oh five.

So through oh six at the symphony and then late 2006 through 2012 at the Seattle Opera. Okay. So really during that time where, digital marketing was coming to the forefront, website development, smartphones came out, you know, the year I graduated from college. So really the move to mobile was during those years, So I was living all of that in my personal life and trying to apply what I was seeing and observing and feeling on my own to how does it benefit the organization?

And then that's where I started getting more sophisticated with. Okay. If I pull this from the database, I can answer that question. If I dig into Google Analytics, I can answer that question for what is our consumer doing on our website. And so that really, that helped me because then as I was making a case, whether it was to my boss or to the team, whether it was the development team or marketing team, and then eventually to the board, it became, this isn't Aubrey's opinion. This isn't the kid in the office. This is what the, the facts are showing us. The data is showing us. So really from necessity and it's it's true to my personality. I've always been very data driven, fact driven. You know, I want to know what is the source of truth? Not what do we think? What does our intuition say?

So, that's true to my personality, but really quickly in my career, I learned this is, this is necessary.

[00:10:20] Jim Farber: But that, that must have been a very exciting moment because what you realized that you, it was like you, you found the entrance to a, you know, a caved in mind.

And suddenly you opened it up and, and realized that there was all this potential that, that you could apply to issues that were facing the organization in a new way.

[00:10:40] Aubrey Bergauer: A hundred percent, Jim. And I still feel that way today because I really get now sort of, I don't know what the word is. Uninspired by debates over what we think should happen or what we think is happening among our patrons.

We now have so much available to us to answer that question definitively most of the time. So I agree. It feels like unlocking something that was not previously available to us to know.

[00:11:04] Jim Farber: one of the things that, that I think is so important that you just mentioned is the fact although size matters in the, in the amount of a budget you might be able to apply to data analysis. Does a small organization has access to very similar data if they want to take advantage of it and know how to focus. It isn't that true?

[00:11:26] Aubrey Bergauer: That's absolutely true. I would say what is universally true is knowing how to think about data. Like we said, going back to, what are the right questions to ask?

What report do I need to pull? Extract that? What's different between budget sizes is how savvy the database is. So with the smaller organizations, sadly, it's a lot of work in Excel. A lot of times I can extract the information, but it's in Excel and then we have to manipulate the spreadsheet. So we need somebody with some Excel, savvy, pivot tables, that kind of thing.

So it's not that it's impossible. It just, I think it's a little more work at the smaller organizations, right?

[00:12:02] Jim Farber: The now have you experienced over this period of time? You've been now in the field that there are organizations that have really embraced this early on and have accumulated vast amounts of data.

I mean, regarding all aspects of the operation, not just ticket sales, but everything. You know, put it in a baseball analogy. How many hot dogs, you know, were sold at a given game mm-hmm to down to which pitcher is more likely to, to last six innings. So can you apply those same kind of thinking to the classical music opera model in terms of performance, in terms of programming, in terms of marketing, is that part of the whole formula?

[00:12:44] Aubrey Bergauer: Yes. I would say the, the data is there. Almost every organization has the data it's do they know how to access it? Mm-hmm and especially our consumer patron data. We've got that. That's that that's the advantage we have as performing arts organizations is that every, almost every interaction with us is a transaction.

So we get that information, whereas by comparison I did some consulting work with NPR headquarters. And they were saying true for every local station. They don't know who their audience is until they become a donor. And so I realize that's an advantage we have that the second somebody buys a ticket, we know who that person is, even as a brand new person in our database. So we have mountains and mountains of data available to us again. It's how do we harness it. Now to your question on the programming and repertoire, you and I touched on this when we briefly spoke the other day, organizations are generally good at knowing, you know, X guest artists came and we sold Y tickets.

I would say that's track pretty consistently across most organizations, especially the larger ones. Mm-hmm . But what, but I think this is actually asking the wrong question, going back to questions again. It's not, which superstar sell, I mean, that is a way to approach it, but I would argue that's not working for us anymore.

Why? Because so many of those names are not household names. They're household among us as fish and autos, but not among the general public. And we see even incredibly exceptionally talented guest artists are not always driving tickets, you know, the way they did 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

So I would say, can, can we use those metrics? Yes. Are they the end? All Beall? Are they the right questions? No, I would say instead, let's look at metrics like how many of those first timers came back? Because the nationwide. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Cause the nationwide statistic you've seen it. You've heard me say nine outta 10 don't come back. Right. So what are, what levers can we pull to move that needle versus mm-hmm who came once because Joshua Bell was on the program.

Right. And what have you found as is the answer to that question? It must be

multiple answers, but I mean, yeah, there are multiple answers. I would summarize it as.

Twofold one, there is a gap in education and knowledge. There's a whole bunch of reasons why that is. I would say mainly our public school systems are not teaching a baseline knowledge the way they used to with music education. So big gap between what grown adults who are millennials, younger, gen Xers, you know, just didn't have that the same things taught to them that mm.

Older generations did. And then two is this feeling of not being welcome. And there's different ways to say that a feeling that's not inclusive, a feeling that's not a sense of belonging, a feeling of intimidation. I don't know the names of all the instruments. We heard that from people in our user experience research and that's intimidating then when they open a program book and it says, here's the instrumentation 2 22, whatever . So, that's what I would distill it as those two things.

[00:15:46] Jim Farber: Mm-hmm, , it's very interesting that you mentioned. Cause I had written down whether it was a sort of cultural mine field we wanted to get into, but this whole question of, of now inclusivity, diversity in programming, all of those aspects, which are so much at the fore now, in your experience, are analytics being used to advance the improvement in those areas?

[00:16:09] Aubrey Bergauer: Largely no, but the good news is there is an increasing number of organizations that are taking that step. That's a huge part of my work. So I'm seeing firsthand organizations that are saying, we know we've got to get more savvy about. And particularly right now, this moment in time that we're experiencing organizations across all geographies, all budget sizes, all artistic disciplines are grappling with how do we get our audiences back?

And that has completely shifted the dialogue to this is a retention issue. And we know it's a retention issue. So the shift is happening. It's just beginning and it's very exciting.

[00:16:49] Jim Farber: And what are the questions that you would ask in terms of getting the right data for, for making those decisions?

[00:16:56] Aubrey Bergauer: I'm always asking, what is that first timer retention rates? Right. And, and the reason I care about first timers so much is because they're the foundation from which all future relationships develop. Nobody's gonna become a subscriber unless they come back a second time, right. Right. So, and they're definitely not gonna become a donor unless they start having some regular frequency with us. So that's why I care about first timers so much because I care about all the, all the steps that follow. Okay. So for example, I recently, I just wrapped up a contract with a client and they really were, and they're not unique in this. They were really focused on, you know, superstar artists, driving sales and what we were looking at though, when we shifted the question to retention, and this is an ensemble that does a great mix of new music underrepresented composers, also well known pieces.

So they really had a good array that we were looking at in terms of breadth of repertoire. And what we found is sure, there were some programs that in their mind were quote unquote successful because they did well at the box office. However, when we drilled down into what is the retention rate, how many of those new buyers were coming back again?

Oftentimes it wasn't the quote unquote successful shows where people came back. It was sometimes the lesser known music and it turns out as we drilled into this, and this is a combination of data from the CRM plus user experience research, we found that well, what did the organization do for some of these lesser known pieces?

They had their artistic director or music director speak from the stage. They had musicians at some concerts, say why this piece was important to them, or maybe even play a few bars of a, of a important melodic line. So what was happening with, even though those performances maybe didn't do as well at the box office is those patrons learned- now we're talking about filling in that education gap -felt less intimidated because they were set up to understand why this piece of new music mattered. What should they be listening for? So they felt less intimidated. They felt more welcome. They had a personal connection now with whoever was speaking from the stage. Those concerts had higher retention rates.

So it really was a shift in terms of how do we define success? It's not just one- off ticket sales on a box office. It's how do we, how do we leverage that to be lucrative longer term?

[00:19:13] Jim Farber: Well, one of the things that I've seen happening in Los Angeles, particularly with the LA Phil harmonic, Always been on the edge with presenting new music is that they have created an environment where new music is hip.

When, when there's a younger, the younger generation is more likely actually now to come to a green umbrella concert, mm-hmm of new music than they would've necessarily hear Zubin Mehta do Brahms, even though, you know, that might be a marque name. And I find that very exciting.

[00:19:44] Aubrey Bergauer: I totally agree, because I think what they have done well and any organization who wants to pursue this type of thinking is, and I say this all the time when we are focused, not on repertoire as the solution, but let's design an experience like I was just describing and what you were describing with the LA Phil, an experience where people feel like I will have a good time. I will belong here. I will not be intimidated. I will see other people who look like me. When we design an experience and design for the customer in that way, it liberates us in terms of repertoire, because then it becomes not about this correlation of programming to ticket sales.

It's no, the sales are there because we've created an experience that people know and believe they're gonna enjoy. And that just really opens things up. .

[00:20:33] Jim Farber: Yeah, absolutely. And then you get this, what I would call the cool factor, you know, where they see their friends and, and they, they don't necessarily see themselves surrounded by a whole audience of art members.

Mm-hmm and you know, and they say, I'm on the edge. I'm, I'm where it's happening. Yeah. That's and that is, and the vibe at that point is, is really exciting. So that's encouraging. So the other side of this, and I'm curious if you've encountered, this is as a company, say like a baseball team begins to rely more and more heavily on its analytic analysis.

It can impinge on what in our world we would call artistic decision making or even risk taking. Have you found that to be a, a, a potential pit.

[00:21:21] Aubrey Bergauer: I think in classical music, we have to be very careful about what we put under the guise of artistic decision making . I wanna be careful about how I say this.

[00:21:34] Jim Farber: Yeah, yeah, no, no. I want you to be here. Yeah. But I want you to address it cuz I think it's an interesting topic.

[00:21:38] Aubrey Bergauer: On one hand, what we do is subjective. We create art. Art is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. All of that is true. Also though, sometimes I think that, artistic liberty quote unquote is stretched too far and is used as gatekeeping and that's and maybe even unintentionally, but that's where we have to be careful.

And this gets into things like the audition process, and there's a whole path we can go down of, you know, we don't keep stats like baseball. How many times did this player miss a note? You know, we're not doing those kind of statistics, but you thought about taking it did that. I haven't thought about taping.

It did happen, but, but what we do know is that there is even with the screen up. Oftentimes the screen comes down in the final round; that does allow bias even if unintentional to creep in, we do things like have trial weeks, which is not based on any kind of data at all. It's completely subjective. Did this person feel like they fit in with our orchestra?

That's really, again, under the guise of artistic decision making really can be an excuse for gate keeping, again, even unintentionally. So, this is where I don't know if we would call it data, but anytime we can move toward more objectivity in our artistic decision making. I think, it's a balance, we're creative people.

We're a creative industry, but also when there's bias, let's call it when there's structural racism baked in, you know, we really have to examine, is this truly for artistic purposes or is this something else happening?

[00:23:09] Jim Farber: Very interesting. I'm wondering since we are also involved with people who are earning a living as musicians, as administrators, this may be totally off the wall, but how is the union response been to organizations using analytics and decision making?

Did they, are they brought on board with it? The musician representatives find it, you know, threatening or are they seeing the advantages of it?

[00:23:35] Aubrey Bergauer: I think this varies quite a bit from player to player. Musicians are not all alike nor are all staff members alike. Right. So let's, let's say that. But let's see a couple different thoughts on this.

Everybody wants to make more money, you know, raise your hand if you wanna make more money. All of us. Okay. All hands up. So when we're using data and, and I've had great say again, I'm sorry. I feel like I'm in one of your seminar. I know, right? Raise your hand. Okay. But my point is like, at the end of the day where I've had a lot of success with musicians and bringing them on board is when I can say.

Here's how this points to making more money. And then, I mean, it's a lot easier to get somebody to buy in when that's the end result ,more money in our pocket. So, and there's no shame in the game. We don't, we do not get to fund our art unless we are making more money. So I don't think there's, again, any shame in that.

So, so that's important when, when I'm speaking with musicians and also though when you can't always map it, this is a trial project, this is an experiment we're testing, you know, That's where sometimes I see a lot of difference in musicians willingness to embrace these ideas. So what do we do then?

I think that there are more and more musicians as a trend saying, we know the old way is not working. We know. So that's great news. And even on some of these things with the auditions we now have national guidelines that were made in partner with union orchestra members, so that's great news when we're talking about trying to remove bias, make more objective decision making in our audition process so that it better serves the artistic goals in the end.

We need that. We need to be doing this collaboratively, with our musicians. So there's that. So again, just to indicate that I think there's a growing trend of fabulous players of all stripes saying mm-hmm, , you know, we gotta do things differently. And then in terms of data, it's the same thing as when I was giving my early examples of getting buy-in from the board and my bosses at a young age, it's the same thing with players and anybody at any age to this day. I'm still using data to, try to understand, you know, how do we move this industry forward? Right. And I feel like a, a lot of musicians are receptive of that.

They're smart people, right.

[00:25:42] Jim Farber: I guess as a, as a sort of last brave new world question or depending on what kind of future dystopian or otherwise you imagine. it, it seems like you can't make a phone call to buy anything, go online, da, da, da, da, do anything without somebody saying, well, can we call you back immediately afterwards to, to get your survey in for, you know, how well were you served?

However, was this, how did you like the product? All of this is, is basically data mining. Isn't it? And, and so are we moving to a point where there will be so much data? And that it won't just be that, that Jim Farber bought a ticket to go see noon to midnight at the Philharmonic. We know that Jim Farber also likes cucumbers mm-hmm and he also, you know, prefers his Honda Accord to both mm-hmm

Do you see, you know, this sort of potential science fiction future where we are? So data mind that. The analysis that, you know, take's on infinite proportions. That's a roundabout question, but anyway.

[00:26:43] Aubrey Bergauer: We are there already, Jim. Oh, this? I would say, I would say maybe arts organizations, performing arts organizations are not harnessing data in that specific of a way, but it's there. This is the greater conversation of our data privacy. What are these companies like Facebook, Google tracking, Apple tracking about us online, right? Like it's there. I guarantee Facebook knows if you like Hondas better than Toyotas. Like they know, you know?

And that's not specific to performing arts organizations. That's every, every brand is, you know, on their own journey to how do leverage that. And so it's just a, it's part of a broader conversation, but we're there, man.

[00:27:19] Jim Farber: Oh, that's great. Thank you so much, Aubrey. This is this. I knew it was gonna be fun. You're a joy.

[00:27:25] Aubrey Bergauer: Oh, thank you. Well, your questions are great. I I'm really grateful you're writing this story to help push it forward for our, our industry.

[00:27:32] Aubrey Bergauer: Hey Off Stagers. Okay. You're here listening to this podcast where I'm answering questions, and one of the questions I get asked often is how to apply these topics, ideas, and action items to your own organization. If you've been listening to the podcast and thinking, how can we do this more effectively at my own organization? Or how can we hear more specific insights that apply directly and uniquely to my own organization or situation? I'd love to hear from you. I'm currently lining up clients for Q4 of this year. That's late fall 2022 and into Q1 of 2023.

Working with me isn't for everyone, I have to say that. I tell potential clients all the time I'm not a match for them. You have to be ready to do the work and think about doing things differently in order to produce different results. But if you're listening to this podcast, that's a pretty good indication that you're interested in a way forward that helps build the vibrant future your organization needs and deserves. Contact me at hello@AubreyBergauer.com for more information or to talk it through. hello@AubreyBergauer.com Hope to hear from you soon.

That's all for today, folks. Thanks so much for listening, and keep up with more content like this by following me on LinkedIn, Instagram or Twitter @AubreyBergauer. And Definitely hit that follow button to subscribe to this podcast. And I have one more favor to ask: if you liked what you heard here, will you please leave a review and rating? I've learned it really does make a huge difference, and I'd be so grateful for your help and support in that. Thanks again. See you next time on The Offstage Mic.

The Offstage Mic was produced by me, Aubrey Bergauer, and made possible by Descript. I used to Descript to record, edit, set audio levels, and make the trailer as well as the video teasers on social media. I couldn't have done it without them. And I recommend any marketing team or individual creator should definitely use this tool too. Thanks again to Descript for making this project and many others I've done possible. This is a production of Changing the Narrative.